PROTECT KILMAINHAM JAIL

Do you really want Dublin look like cities of USA or make the same mistakes who were done in France about the new building surrended historical monuments ? Do you want Dublin more ugly ? Why not a supermarket in the GPO ? Dominique Foulon France

Username:: Sarah Sénéor
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 09:32

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keep these national monuments seems to me very important for the future and memory of Ireland Don't touch them for new and very often ugly modern buildings(we have seen that in Paris). Sarah Sénéor, Paris, France

Username:: Sarah Sénéor
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 09:33

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Username:: Gary Hoctor
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 10:04

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Sir, I hereby object to the proposed contruction of office buildings opposite Kilmainham Jail. Its present architechtural value will be decreased if such a construction is allowed to proceed. Yours

Username:: Shay Gibbons
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 12:01

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People born and reared in Inchicore can no longer afford to buy homes there anymore. The influx of country people, lower and uppper middle class Dubliners and an motley array of yuppies have now ruined what was once Dublin's best kept secret. When will someone shout stop? Kilmainham will surrvive all wars and conflicts that comes its way, please concern yourselves with the distruction of a community before your very eyes. In ten years time what was Inchivcore will be but a memory.

Username:: Edward Brannigan
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 15:49

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Well done on your magnificant site. I would just like to point out that no IRISH SOLDIERS fought and died in the two world wars. Those who did, and were of Irish birth etc, fought and died as BRITISH SOLDIERS. It is misleading to suggest otherwise.

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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 17:18

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Please find below a copy of Sinn Féin's objection to the proposed development accross from Kilmainham Jail.

To: Mr. Christopher Geoghegan Principal Officer, Planning Department, Dublin Corporation, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8, Friday 19 January 2001

Re: Revised planning application no. 2467-00 from Charmside Ltd. Re: Proposed Development at nos 34-38 Inchicore Road, Kilmainham, Dublin 8 (formerly Rowantrees)

A chara, I wish to again lodge an objection to the planned development by Charmside Ltd. on the former Rowantrees site, planning application no. 2467-00. The revised plans, which were submitted on 22 December 2000 following a request from Dublin Corporation for further information, are in my view still contrary to the aesthetic, architectural, archaeological and ethos of the area. I also believe that the project is still in breach of the guidelines for buildings on this site as outlined in the Inchicore Urban Design Plan issued by Dublin Corporation in May 2000 . Obviously the developers did not understand the nature of the objections to their first plan, that the size, density, obtrusiveness and bulk of the three blocks should be reduced and that a building of excellence as per Inchicore Urban Design Plan should have been submitted. The revised plans in fact increase in size the development by 3,351 sq. mts to 56,786 sq. mts of accomadation. This is in fact achieved by the reduction of open space within the site, the removal of an atrium as per original plan. There is no serious attempt to address the concerns regarding car-parking space and traffic to and from the site.

Traffic/Car Park The revised plan retains the proposed two-storey underground carpark with a capacity for 587 vehicles. This capacity will in no way be capable of handling the volume of vehicular traffic which a development of this size would entail. Conservative estimates by the developer that there will be less than 1,900 people working in the offices, while other planners suggest that the office space available if the building is completed would suggest a working population in excess of 3,000 and possibly as much as 4,000. That would suggest that the car park proposed would not have the capacity to deal with the level of worker vehicles and that the surrounding area would suffer the consequences. The revised plan has more than doubled the space for retail and creche facilities, suggesting more people visiting the complex, also suggesting that more than the proposed 11 visitors car parking spaces are required. The consequences would be that all local on-street parking spaces would be taken up to facilitate the overflow of workers cars from that development and that the proposed public square “civic space” in the middle of Inchicore Road opposite the entrance to Kilmainham Jail would be compromised or disfunctional due to traffic chaos and grid lock. The number of car travelling into and out of the area because of the development would make it difficult for local residents to enter or exit their houses and would obstruct the tourism industry as per Kilmainham Jail and the Royal Hospital. The workings of the courthouse might also be affected. I still contend that as I said in my initial objection that: “Even taking the conservative estimate of 1,800 people working in the development, the level of traffic, into an already traffic-congested area would be unacceptable. The road network in the area cannot cope at present with the level of traffic and this development would add greatly to the problem, specifically at the times when the traffic problems in the area are at their worst. As it is the planned the introduction of the LUAS is predicted to worsen the traffic problems of the area.” I would also submit that relying , as the developers do in their new plans, on a reduction of car use of 20% , and a hope that 10% would be using the LUAS, with 4% and 6% increases over 3 years of cyclists and walkers to work respectively is a bit far-fetched, and is a reflection of the current trends in modes of transport for office based workers.

Size and scale Despite the minor alterations to the original plans I believe that the new plans are no less intrusive on the homes of existing residents on Inchicore Road and South Circular Road, specifically St John’s Terrace amd also to the houses adjoinging the site on Inchicore Road. The building will still be rising three storeys above the houses on Inchicore Road and St John’s Terrace. (An opening onto South Coircular Road from the Gym is included in the revised plans.) The submitted photomontages View D2 shows how much the buildings will be looming over the houses on St John’s Terrace. Photmontage View E3 shows how imposing the buildings will look and their bulk. View F2 show0s that the buildings will dwarf the exisiting houses. Several of the other views I contend are decieving. It is welcome that the developers took on board some of the concerns of the residents and other objectors, but it still seems that they are intend in squeezing in as much office space and can fit on the site, with the resultant bulk, the second class architectural appearance and an imposing nature. Words such as “soften façade” and “ restrained façade” do not hide obstrusive nature of the proposal. The building, despite the new proposal to have precast Limestone and Granite panels the building, will not blend with the existing building and will therefore be intrusive. The development is also contrary to the development parameters outlined in Dublin Corporation’s Urban Design Framework prepared as part of Inchicore’s Integrated Area Plan (May 2000), i.e. “the development of the heritage potential and associated tourism and employment, regeneration of derelict areas whilst respecting existing urban fabric” and that any building on this site would “ take its building line from the adjacent development on either frontage, perhaps responding to the strong form of the complex of buildings opposite”. The proposal is far from being a building of excellence and does not take its line from existing building nor does it reflect the strong form Kilmainham Jail or Kilmaiham Courthouse or for that matter Richmond Tower. edifice The frontage, skyline, the size and density of the buildings will not blend with the existing architectural construction of the local buildings, some of which are very important to Ireland both in terms of their architectural and their historical heritage. Imposing a modern edifice along the lines of what Charmside are proposing will detract, rather than enhance Kilmainham Jail, the District Court, the Royal Hospital and Richmond Tower and thus would discourage tourism to the area. This would be contrary to the first key objective listed under the Economic Renewal heading in the Kilmainham-Inchicore Integrated Area Plan 1997 was: “The development of tourism as a means of addressing unemployment”. That plan, the Integrated Area Plan, sees the promotion of the full occupation of under-used sites and buildings, in accordance with sustainable development objectives. These buildings and their impact on the local community and local traffic network would not be in line with the sustainable development objectives because it would have a negative impact on the area economicaly and underwise because it will cause gridlock and thus discourage tourists and others from visiting or locating the area.

Railway Line While Iarnród Éireann stated that they had no objection to planned developments near the boundary of the railway line, they did make it conditional: that no work take place within 4 metres of the boundary wall. I would contend that the scale of the work proposed would undermine the boundary wall and could seriously affect the maniline rail schedules out of Heuston Station.

I am not opposed in principal to office accomadation on this site, but would think that in line with IAP and Urban Design Framework that any development on this site should aimed at enhancing the tourism potential of the area. I would also contend that the developers were a bit previous in suggesting that the inclusion of a hotel development on the site would be opposed by residents. (“The latter considerations include the likely response of adjoining residents to the development of an hotel”.) Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t. What residents in the area are seeking is that any development on the the site would enhance the the area rather than detract from it. This revised proposeal for all the reasons outlined above would detract from the area and should be rejected by the Planning Department. This is an ill-conceived plan in many ways and should be rejected on grounds of height, density, intrusion of residential properties, the level of traffic during and after construction, not being in line with Dublin Corporation’s development plans for the area and would detract from the historical and architectural importance of the area. Is mise,

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Sinn Féin) 12 Bóthar na Déise, Baile Fhormaid, Baile Átha Cliath 10.

P.S. If my objection and those of others are not upheld. I would ask that serious restrictions be put on the hours of building on this site, that the number of trucks removing soil from the site (which will be substantial) be limited to a set amount daily and that Iarnród Éireann be kept fully inform of any work close to the boundary wall. I would also seek to ensure that proper consideration be given to the impact pile-driving is going to have on the houses adjoining this site.

Username:: Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Sinn Féin)
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 17:23

Comments

The following is a copy of Sinn Féin's recent objection to the proposed development. This was submitted to Dublin Corporation

To: Mr. Christopher Geoghegan Principal Officer, Planning Department, Dublin Corporation, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8, Friday 19 January 2001

Re: Revised planning application no. 2467-00 from Charmside Ltd. Re: Proposed Development at nos 34-38 Inchicore Road, Kilmainham, Dublin 8 (formerly Rowantrees)

Aengus Ó Snodaigh 12 Bóthar na Déise, Baile Fhormaid, Baile Átha Cliath 10.

Username:: Stephen King
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Date:: 30 January 2001
Time:: 22:39

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I am utterly sappalled by the proposal to build office blocks beside Kilmainham Jail. Is that all it's about, money, money, money (greed) and no heritage and culture.

Username:: D. de Coverley
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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 03:02

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Currently the architecture proposed does not blend with existing buildings or enhance by virtue of scale or scope what is needed to create a harmonised development within the neighborhood. Imposing buildings that block visual sight lines and sunlight, and whose design are directly opposed to the guidelines specified in Dublin Corporation’s Urban Design Framework are not what is needed to enhance the tourism and heritage potential of the existing urban fabric of the area. With 160,000 visitors to the Kilmainham Jail in 1999, it is clear that interest is very much alive in Ireland’s history and will continue to be so. Would it not be more in keeping with the needs of the visitors to Kilmainham Jail to develop some sites for rest and refreshment within the area where Charmside Ltd. wishes to build, reduce the scale of the proposed buildings and require Charmside to adhere to Inichore’s Integrated Area Plan (May of 2000) at the same time?

Surely a plan more beneficial to the neighborhood and in line with the IIA plan should be required if Dublin Corporation is to hold it’s civic honor and face intact. Honor your heritage and history by preserving the importance of the Kilmainham Jail and the surrounding historical sites by giving them the full precedence they deserve within the framework of the needed urban renewal.

D. de Coverley Dallas, Texas USA

Username:: Rosena Horan
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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 09:49

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As a native of Clondalkin, but now living in France, I was distressed to recently learn of the proposed development opposite Kilmainham jail. Would it not be in more keeping with the site's cultural importance to plan the surrounding area for amenities which would rather enhance its attraction for the numerous visitors to the jail each year? Or will I once again be confronted by another botched Dublin Corporation Planning development on my next visit to Dublin? Another eyesore to explain away to our foreign visitors.

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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 10:29

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Please leave Kilmainham Jail as it is !

Catherine (France)

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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 12:01

Comments

Elisabeth Sabot, Country : France/Ireland

Username:: Shane O'Brien
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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 14:21

Comments

This is a historic building. Please do no ruin it.

Thanks, Shane

Username:: Dermot Keyes (The Liberty)
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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 14:35

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I agree with the motivations of this group and I must compliment everyone involved in this website on the tremendous efforts being made by the local residents and everything must be done to protect another monstrosity from dotting this city's skyline. It is bad enough that the Customs House is surrounded by high rise buildings, most of them ugly and that the GPO stands in the most desecrated main street of any capital city in Europe (and that's with no spike) without one of the most historic buildings in our country being subjected to the same fate. I am the news editor of a free sheet newspaper in the south inner city and though I will have to conduct an impartial approach in my story for thus month's edition of The Liberty, I cannot understate my vehement opposition to another office block construction which will leave a national monument in shadow for huge portions of the year. It is remarkable to think that Sile de Valera did not see the importance of purchasimng this site to retain the look of the area as it currently stands, considering that her own grandfather and many other brave men of that age, were housed in the very jail that we must protect. Let us hope that this technology park never leaves the planning sheets and that a sane and reasonable future for this precious national site can be agreed to.

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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 16:03

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This is the horribly familiar story of a developer trying to squeeze the maximum possible floorspace out of a site, and to hell with the surroundings. There comes a point when basically bad and inappropriate proposals such as this one cannot be "improved" any more. If it's overscaled (and it is, grossly) then no amount of fiddling about with the elevations is going to help much.

At which point, it is time to wave goodbye to whoever is proposing the bad scheme, and invite new approaches from less greedy people fielding better architects, capable of producing a suitable lower-density scheme. Preferably mixed-use. You know, homes, shops, cafes etc as well as offices. That way it doesn't all go dead at 5pm.

Hugh Pearman London

Username:: Liam and Marti Massey
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Date:: 31 January 2001
Time:: 20:41

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We support the campaign to stop the large office block development directly across from the historical landmark, the Kilmainham Jail.

Username:: Gerard Blaney
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Date:: 01 February 2001
Time:: 08:54

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Dear John,

We have added the campaign to a prominent place on our Homepage and I anticipate a good response.Would you mind keeping us appraised of developments and of course the outcome ?

Wishing you all the very best on the campaign.

Gerard Blaney The Best Irish Website.com

===== visit us @ http://www.thebestirishwebsite.come-mail webmaster@thebestirishwebsite.com

____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

Username:: Richard Ledwidge
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Date:: 01 February 2001
Time:: 09:08

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As a city that prides itself on its history, culture, people, and uses these strengths as a means to encourge visitors to enjoy these attributes, I would urge you to give due consideration to concerns regarding the proposed development across the road from Kilmainham Jail. Here is an oppurtunity not only to practice what you preach about Dublin, but, a way to enhance the surrounding area by limiting development. Do we have to surrender to the desires of developers in their relentless pursuit of profit or are we prepared to protect and promote a part of our history?

Username:: Paul Canavan
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Date:: 01 February 2001
Time:: 12:02

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This is a travesty, these buildings are part of our heritage. I grew up in Drimnagh and these buildings were part of my upbringing. Our 1916 heroes were interned and died within these walls. This is another example of the Liam Lawlors of the world putting money before history. What's next? A Dart station in Christ Church?

Username:: Maria Delaney
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Date:: 01 February 2001
Time:: 13:48

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As a Dubliner living abroad I realise the extent of the historical sites in Ireland. We are blessed with our heritage and should do everything within our power to protect it. Development is important yet it must be controlled or it will take over and leave Ireland as one large commercial zone, taking away its history, charm, and everything we stand for.

Username:: Dr Ray Fuller
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Date:: 02 February 2001
Time:: 10:45

Comments

This revised proposed development is a minimalist and purely cosmetic response to the considerations thoughtfully and responsibly detailed by the Corporation in its comments on the original proposal. There is still: No provision of green space; No serious consideration of the height of adjacent and proximal buildings; No responsible analysis of road infrastructure to service access and parking (capacity and safety); No comprehensive and sensitive consideration of the historic nature of the immediate area; No meaningful protection of the privacy of residents, especially those adjacent to the site on South Circular Road; No restoration of the loss of direct sunlight to residents adjacent to the site on South Circular Road; No reduction in the size and density of the development which is totally out of proportion to the existing historic and residential buildings. This new proposal appears to be a cynical response to the responsible position adopted by the Corporation, apparently driven solely by a desire to exploit the site to deliver the largest possible return on investment, with virtually no consideration for the quality of the visual, social and historical environment.

Username:: Mary Upton, TD
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Date:: 02 February 2001
Time:: 10:56

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This is the letter of objection submitted by local TD, Mary Upton. From my careful examination of the file, this proposal is a travesty and must be rejected.

Mr Christy Geoghegan, Principal Officer Planning Department Dublin Corporation Civic Offices Dublin 8

1 February 2001

Dear Mr Geoghegan

I refer to planning application 2467/00 for new offices at the former Nestle site, 34 to 35 Inchicore Road, Kilmainham. I wish to respond to the points made in the additional information submitted by the developers. I refer also to my previous correspondence of September 15 last concerning the original application.

I have studied the details of the additional information and I would ask that this application be rejected immediately.

1. Additional information submitted does not answer queries raised Dublin Corporation should find that the additional information submitted is completely insufficient. The proposed development is of monstrous proportions and it will do serious long-term damage to the future of Inchicore and Kilmainham.

Dublin Corporation should not feel under any obligation to agree to this proposal. It must ensure that proper planning guidelines are followed to the end. The Corporation should not be bamboozled by the boxful of glossy documents submitted by the developer.

2. Poor mix and too dense This is a huge development and the additional information makes matters worse. There are too many units and it is of too high a density.

The mix is appalling. The application admits that it has nothing to offer the local community. Despite all the glossy documents sent in from the developers, they did not bother to draft a proper viability study on what they could offer the local community.

Only 2% of the application is for uses other than office. This is laughable and unacceptable.

Dublin Corporation has recently prepared a detailed Integrated Area Plan for Kilmainham and Inchicore. This lays down what should happen to make Kilmainham and Inchicore a better place. These proposals fail to meet the guidelines of the IAP. On these grounds alone, the application must be rejected.

3. Amenity and heritage value of site Many of the representations made to Dublin Corporation mention the historic value of Kilmainham Gaol. This needs to be at the forefront of the Corporation's consideration of this application. As it now stands, the proposal will dwarf the Gaol. It will severely undermine the tourist value of the Gaol. Some 200,000 tourists visit Kilmainham every year. Some part of this site could be used to develop and exploit the tourism potential of Kilmainham.

Kilmainham and Inchicore are parts of Dublin with great potential. They have been neglected in the past, but there is hope in the air that things will improve. The local community need a broad mix of services to improve everyone's quality of life. This is not contained in this proposal.

4. Transport study is a joke The report submitted by the transport consultants is shoddy and not worthy of consideration. The additional information does not contain credible information on how many people work in the offices.

There could be some 4000 people working in the offices. There is insufficient provision for parking contained in the application. It is not realistic to expect that everyone will take public transport to work. The neighbouring area will be saturated with daytime on-street parking.

5. Conclusion One person described this application as an ocean liner forever docked in Kilmainham. This accurately describes the macro and inappropriate scale of the development. If approved, these offices would devastate Kilmainham and Inchicore and this damage would last for many years.

This application must be rejected. Any office development cannot be more imposing than the buildings now in place.

I look forward to the careful consideration of Dublin Corporation of this proposal. I hope that the points I have raised will be fully taken into account.

With best wishes.

Yours sincerely

____________ Mary Upton, TD

Username:: John Callery
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Date:: 02 February 2001
Time:: 12:01

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To everyone who has supported our campaign up until now-THANK YOU ONE ALL from Texas to Tallaght and Paris to Inchicore.

Could you also e mail the following public servants who must act in their professional roles as protectors of our historical and architectural heritage. If they cannot act to protect Kilmainham Gaol what excuses can they offer ?? Ask them. Sile de Velera announced with a fanfare only some weeks ago that she is to spend £1 million on the roof of the Gaol, she should concern herself with the monstrosity that is planned to loom over the roof of the Gaol.

Sile de Velera (Minister for Heritage & Culture) aire@ealga.irlgov.ie

James Barret (City Architect) james.barret@dublincorp.ie

Bertie Ahern ( Irish Prime-minister and FF TD for Kilmainham ) bahern@iol.ie

Username:: Eithne Massey
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Date:: 02 February 2001
Time:: 15:53

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As member of the local community in Inchicore, I would like to lodge my strong objection to Charmside's (a most unsuitable name, if ever there was one!) plans for the Nestle-Rowntree site. The revised application is in no real sense an improvement on the original one, which put forward a high-rise, high-density plan for the site. The frontage of the site gives particular cause for concern, removing the green area which currently exists and creating a series of massive, monolithic structures, coming to the very edge of Inchicore Road and the South Circular Road. Residents in the area are opposed to the development primarily for the following reasons;

The location: This corner is unique; it forms an axis of great historical and cultural importance. Originally the site of a twelfth century priory (and an earlier Celtic foundation), it now holds the entrance to the Royal Hospital and the façade of Kilmainham Jail. As it stands at present, the corner holds an intact vista of seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century buildings. The historical and touristic importance of the jail in particular must be obvious to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with Irish history but the fact that it is more than likely that the site is the location of the Knight's Hospitaller's Great Hall - a building which was a centre of administrative life in Dublin, on the scale of Dublin Castle - from the 12th. to the 16th. century-may not be generally known. The late twentieth century Nestle Rowntree factory currently on the site is of neither historical nor aesthetic importance, but it least it has the virtue of being set well back from the road and with green space and planting around it, and a clear view down towards the Phoenix Park. The planned development would destroy this vista completely. The planned buildings are completely out of character with the area in both scale and design. The plan is not a bad design in itself, simply the wrong buildings in the wrong place. Modern architecture can blend in well with existing structures, and no-one is advocating a pastiche-style building for the area, but a much smaller, lower-scale design, with green space around it and with some recognition of the particular character of the site would go a long way towards making the plan acceptable.

The nature of the development: When it rejected the original proposal, Dublin Corporation requested a more mixed development from Charmside. The response could be considered laughable, if it were not so insulting. Now with a few more retail units, a restaurant (not specified for public use), a creche (not specified for public use) and a public gym (of great benefit to the community, considering the general age profile in the immediate area) it has rejected the idea of a public square because of the road junction. This despite the fact that anyone passing the area on the mornings the court sits will find the paths full of the waiting public. The rejection of any consideration being given to a hotel as part of the site is also spurious. Many members of the community would prefer have such a public facility, which would at least bring life to the area, to a concrete ghost-town left sitting on their doorsteps after the last commuter has sped (or rather crawled) down towards the M50.

Traffic congestion: The scale of the planned proposal will bring hundreds more cars to an already seriously congested area. As it stands, there are constant rush-hour bottlenecks at all roads around the site - South Circular Road, St. John's Road, Kilmainham Lane, Old Kilmainham and Emmet Road. The huge emphasis on car-parking in the scheme demonstrates that the developers see this facility as a major selling-point in the development. At a period when the Corporation is supposedly discouraging use of cars in urban areas, how can they approve of such a scheme?

Finally, I would like to stress that the community realises that what is a prime site cannot remain without development of some kind. Office space is relatively non-pollutant and has the potential to be designed in such a way as to retain the integral character of an area. The Kilmainham/Inchicore area is overdue for such development and an influx of workers would certainly be welcomed by local businesses and no doubt stimulate new growth. But this is not the plan that will develop this potential. If it is approved, what it will leave us with is a monstrosity towering over the cultural treasures of other days. Do we really want that to be the legacy of the 21st. century?

If you are interested in further information about the site, or interested in lodging an on-line objection, should access the kilmainham-gaol website. I await your reply with interest,

7 Emmet Road, Dublin 8.

Tel: 4539381

Dear

Are you aware of the planned development at the Nestle-Rowntree site at the corner of Inchicore Road and the South Circular Road?

If you are, what action do you plan to take?

A company called Charmside Developments has applied to Dublin Corporation for planning permission to build an Office Park on this site. Their first application was rejected and a second application has been lodged, with the decision due to be given on February 16th. The revised application is in no real sense an improvement on the original one, which put forward a high-rise, high-density plan for the site. The frontage of the site gives particular cause for concern, removing the green area which currently exists and creating a series of massive, monolithic structures, coming to the very edge of Inchicore Road and the South Circular Road. Residents in the area are opposed to the development primarily for the following reasons;

The location: This corner is unique; it forms an axis of great historical and cultural importance. Originally the site of a twelfth century priory (and an earlier Celtic foundation), it now holds the entrance to the Royal Hospital and the façade of Kilmainham Jail. As it stands at present, the corner holds an intact vista of seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century buildings. The historical and touristic importance of the jail in particular must be obvious to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with Irish history. The late twentieth century Nestle Rowntree factory currently on the site is of neither historical nor aesthetic importance, but it least it has the virtue of being set well back from the road and with green space and planting around it, and a clear view down towards the Phoenix Park. The planned development would destroy this vista completely. The planned buildings are completely out of character with the area in both scale and design. The plan is not a bad design in itself, simply the wrong buildings in the wrong place. Modern architecture can blend in well with existing structures, and no-one is advocating a pastiche-style building for the area, but a much smaller, lower-scale design, with green space around it and with some recognition of the particular character of the site would go a long way towards making the plan acceptable.

If you are interested in further information about the site, or interested in lodging an on-line objection, should access the kilmainham-gaol website. I await your reply with interest,

7 Emmet Road, Dublin 8.

Tel: 4539381

Dear

Are you aware of the planned development at the Nestle-Rowntree site at the corner of Inchicore Road and the South Circular Road?

If you are, what action do you plan to take?

The location: This corner is unique; it forms an axis of great historical and cultural importance. Originally the site of a twelfth century priory (and an earlier Celtic foundation), it now holds the entrance to the Royal Hospital and the façade of Kilmainham Jail. As it stands at present, the corner holds an intact vista of seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century buildings. The historical and touristic importance of the jail in particular must be obvious to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with Irish history. The late twentieth century Nestle Rowntree factory currently on the site is of neither historical nor aesthetic importance, but it least it has the virtue of being set well back from the road and with green space and planting around it, and a clear view down towards the Phoenix Park. The planned development would destroy this vista completely. The planned buildings are completely out of character with the area in both scale and design. The plan is not a bad design in itself, simply the wrong buildings in the wrong place. Modern architecture can blend in well with existing structures, and no-one is advocating a pastiche-style building for the area, but a much smaller, lower-scale design, with green space around it and with some recognition of the particular character of the site would go a long way towards making the plan acceptable.

If you are interested in further information about the site, or interested in lodging an on-line objection, should access the kilmainham-gaol website. I await your reply with interest,

7 Emmet Road, Dublin 8.

Tel: 4539381

Dear

Are you aware of the planned development at the Nestle-Rowntree site at the corner of Inchicore Road and the South Circular Road?

If you are, what action do you plan to take?

The location: This corner is unique; it forms an axis of great historical and cultural importance. Originally the site of a twelfth century priory (and an earlier Celtic foundation), it now holds the entrance to the Royal Hospital and the façade of Kilmainham Jail. As it stands at present, the corner holds an intact vista of seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century buildings. The historical and touristic importance of the jail in particular must be obvious to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with Irish history. The late twentieth century Nestle Rowntree factory currently on the site is of neither historical nor aesthetic importance, but it least it has the virtue of being set well back from the road and with green space and planting around it, and a clear view down towards the Phoenix Park. The planned development would destroy this vista completely. The planned buildings are completely out of character with the area in both scale and design. The plan is not a bad design in itself, simply the wrong buildings in the wrong place. Modern architecture can blend in well with existing structures, and no-one is advocating a pastiche-style building for the area, but a much smaller, lower-scale design, with green space around it and with some recognition of the particular character of the site would go a long way towards making the plan acceptable.

If you are interested in further information about the site, or interested in lodging an on-line objection, should access the kilmainham-gaol website. I await your reply with interest,

Username:: Nick
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Date:: 02 February 2001
Time:: 17:40

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It is very disappointing to see that Dublin Corporation has no consideration for historical landmarks such as kilmainham I am from the kilmainham area and it would be a total disregard for the people in the area such as myself to see a project such as this to go forward

Username:: Denise Merriman,116 Kickham Road, Inchicore, Dublin 8
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Date:: 03 February 2001
Time:: 12:14

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This site must be developed as one would see in any other European country. This most unique site cries out for what we as residents and our thousands of tourists require.

1) A classicaly,tastefully designed first class hotel.

2) A heritage village to to reflect the great and ancient history of the area and site-from St. Maighneann of the 7th C, up to the 1916 rising.

3) An OPEN PLAZA for all to sit and reflect on the great history of the site and enjoy its unique views.

Sile de Velera and James Barret( Dublin City Architect) it's your duty and responsibility to SAVE AND PRESERVE OUR BLUE SKIES IN KILMAINHAM. Save us and the Old Gaol from these 3 proposed OCEAN LINERS PLANNED TO BE bearthed in our face forever- even one floor of offices will destroy this site for ever-and who will be welcome on board these ocean liners - BUSINESS CLASS ONLY!!!!

Username:: Patrick V. Garland
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Date:: 04 February 2001
Time:: 02:40

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Dear Sirs: I am a first generation Irish-American, my father emigrating to the US during the 1920s. My father was proud of his heritage and I follow along. My wife and I have visited Kilmainham Gaol and hope to do so again later this year. In my mind, Kilmainham is a shrine and should be treated as such. Rather than surrounding it with office buildings, I would rather see it developed into a tourist site where visitors would be able to learn more about Ireland's History, with facilities for stopping to contemplate what took place at the Gaol, a shrine to pray, public restaurants, and maybe a place to get a bite to eat. A gift shop-book store would also be a nice addition.

Username:: Niall Rooney
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Date:: 05 February 2001
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I disagree with the proposed building of an office block opposite to Kilmainham Jail as it would take away from a great irish monument.For the record i am living in limerick city

Username:: John Callery,2 the Paddocks, Hy Breasal, SCR, Dublin 8.
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Date:: 05 February 2001
Time:: 13:20

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KILMAINHAM AND INCHICORE COMBINED RESIDENTS ASSOCIATIONS AND FRIENDS OF KILMAINHAM GAOL.

Ref: Macro Blocks at Kilmainham Gaol.

James Barret City Architect Dublin Corporation Wood Quay February 5th 2001.

We wish to state our following observations in relation to the “revised”!! submission by Treasury Holdings pertaining to the above.

1. Overall build of this “revised” development is now 56,786sq.m (611,245 ft. sq. ) Previous scheme = 53,388 sq. m.(574,668 sq.ft) So proposed new build of these blocks has increased by 3398 sq m.(36,576 sq.ft ). This is some RESPONCE to him being asked to consider the density of his proposal.

2. Let’s now examine each block: Block A = 25,311 sq m of which 24,788 sq m for office use Block A to contain a “restaurant” (workers canteen)!! = 236 sq m. Also to contain “a tourist information unit”!! = 361 sq m. Total retail = 597 sq m

So block A will provide “amenities” of 2.4% of “mixed use”. Further more this miniscule space that he calls a restaurant is nothing more than a tea room where the 4000 occupants of the blocks will cram in shifts for a smoke and cup of tea. It is a token tea shop that would not even serve the needs of the security staff of the Macro Blocks.

Block B = 9,019 sq m of which 7,616 sq m for office use. Block B to contain 625 sq m of a “public gym”, 5 retail units = 417 sq m and “a private creche” of 361sq m.

So block B will provide the much needed “local and tourist amenities” that this site cries out for, namely a gym and private creche !! All he is providing is some miniscule facilities for his tenants. Ratio here of offices to “mixed use”!! is 98% offices to 2% office worker facilities – we ask where is the local and tourist amenities that this site cries out for??

Block C = 2560 sq m, this remains at 100% office space.

OVERALL RATIO FOR SCHEME IS 98% OFFICES TO 2% “MIXED USE”- which is for the benefit of the tenants.

The second so called proposal is exactly the same animal as the first. This same proposal for this ancient and historic place is preposterous , architecturally of no merit for such a magnificent location just sub-urban Lego. The comments I have heard after viewing the photomontage vary from that these blocks look like a space station from opposite the Gaol, add a couple of flues and we see a power station from the Pheonix Park and hospital blocks from Con Colbert Road the Western Gateway into Dublin City. This just cannot be passed in any shape or form and be imposed on this ancient place. It’s like the O’ Flaherty case it will never be right. It was wrong last year, its wrong this year and it will never be right. A totally appropriate and well thought out design is required here- a classic hotel, heritage park and public plaza.

3. Public space / atrium : This charade is nothing more than an entrance foyer that “leads into the more private space of the office atrium” to use the planning agents exacts words.

4. “A hotel was considered but not progressed” : We wish to remind Dublin Corporation to read the 2000 very specific points as submitted by the residents stating what this site requires (copy enclosed).

PROPOSED OFFICE BLOCKS OPPOSITE KILMAINHAM GAOL.

Development by Charmside Developments at 34-38 Inchicore Road, Kilmainham Dublin 8. Planning Ref: 2467 /00

I :……………… Address : ……………… …………………………. ………………………… ………………………… August 29th 2000.

I wish to object to the above on the following grounds:

1. The building of the above and its function (SPECULATIVE OFFICE BLOCKS) will diminish the integrity and national importance of Kilmainham Jail.

2. I wish for this site opposite the Kilmainham Gaol to be designated / zoned by Dublin Corporation as a HERITAGE / CULTURAL site.

3. I wish for appropriate amenities for locals and the many tourists who visit here. We require a classically designed hotel (and its associated amenities) restaurant and heritage village for our children and all the children of the nation which reflects the great history of the district.

4. This is Dublin’s Bastille District – let any new development reflect this as one will see surrounding Place de la Bastille in Paris. This site must have public access and be developed as “Plaza Kilmainham”

Yours sincerely,

……………………

5. This proposed development DWARFS all the protected structures that surrounds this most unique site and it can only be described as ARCHITECTURAL FACISM IF IMPOSED ON THE RESIDENTS of St.John’s Terrace, Spencer Terrace and Charlton Terrace. This most imposing scheme will be a negative externality of major density and bulkness in the face of the Gaol and the district. It cannot be considered be Dublin Corporation in any shape or form as it’s apparent all the developer insists on developing is speculative office blocks. Dublin Corporation you’re here to serve the public not big business – you must respond to the total con of “additional information” as submitted by the developer in an appropriate manner. This most inappropriate (in every sense of the word) proposal deserves total rejection, no amount of requests to the developer will improve this scheme. It’s architecturally, historically and morally wrong to say nothing of its function and location. Dublin Corporation you know yourselves this totally fails the objectives of your own IAP for the area, the leading statement of which reads as follows-

“ On the 2nd of November 1999 Dublin Corporation launched (in the East Wing of Kilmainham Gaol !!!) an exciting new Urban Renewal Plan for the Kilmainham / Inchicore area. The AIM is to bring about regeneration whilst enhancing both the built environment and the green space”

This reads like a sick joke to us now. This proposed development has the potential to destroy the only site in the district where the aim of Dublin Corporation’s IAP can be realised – opposite Kilmainham Gaol. Just view the photomontages as submitted by the developer they do nothing to enhance his case quite the contrary they destroy his pathetic arguments to justify his most greedy speculative proposal for our most ancient and historical place.

James Barret Dublin City Architect, Dublin Corporation Wood Quay Dublin 8. Sept 8th 2000.

Re: Macro Blocks planned for Kilmainham Gaol and our IAP.

Dear Sir,

I just wish to reiterate the vision statement of the Integrated Area Plan for Kilmainham.

. “To enhance the environment / heritage adjacent to buildings of national importance”.

Can you imagine my feelings when only last month as I was out pushing my young son in his buggy towards (our favourite place among many in the district the Great War Memorial Park) when on reading the planning application on the Nestle site railings I turned and proceeded home shocked at what I had read. Six Hundred and Fifty Thousand 650,000 sq ft of OFFICES, with a minimum office population of 3,500!! to be spread over 3 blocks rising to 6 stories on the most perfect and elevated site in the district (if not the City of Dublin) that should so rightly enhance the great heritage and listed buildings that surround this site i.e.

Kilmainham Gaol, Bully’s Acre, ancient walls, walks and gardens of the Royal Hospital, The Royal Hospital itself and the War Memorial Park . From this elevated site one is in level with the Arsenal in the Pheonix Park and the panorama of the Park expanse itself.

We have the tourists in their thousands coming to view and soak in the great heritage and history of Kilmainham. What is missing is facilities and amenities for our tourists and locals alike. This site has the potential of becoming the greatest venue in Dublin for heritage and cultural events and all to revolve around Kilmainham Gaol and what our district so badly lacks an tastefully designed first class hotel to cater for tourists, the endless film crews who come to the Jail and for ourselves as residents in the most historic district in the city but not one single amenity to reflect of our Jail and the other local national sites.

The next day I spent it in the planning office reading the drawings and EIS as prepared by Treasury Holdings servants Frank Benson ( Planning Agent) and Tony Reddy (architect ).

What is proposed to be shoehorned / built in our face and the face of Kilmainham Gaol is THE MOST SPECULATIVE OFFICE DEVELOPMENT PLANNED IN THIS CITY SINCE THE SIXTIES. It shames the very word architect and personifies the profession at its most greedy and vulgar extremes. This architecture and its function is totally alien to our district and must not stand beside the architecture of Sir William Robinson (Royal Hospital), Francis Johnston,(Richmond Tower) and Sir Edwin Lutyens (War Memorial Park) to name only a few great architects whose work stands in the district today. THIS CANNOT BE BUILT OPPOSITE KILMAINHAM GAOL AND THE ROYAL HOSPITAL and over and around us as residents.

The integrity of the much vaunted IAP for this district, that was launched (with a fanfare over fine wine and mature cheese) in ( Mc Caudrey’s ) East Wing of Kilmainham Gaol only some months ago already lies shattered and irrevocably damaged. It’s also void of any trust if this was planned as the developer says

“after detailed discussions with the senior planners and architects of Dublin Corporation.”

The IAP has being exposed as a joke and words written on paper. The anger in this district has steadily mounted and is about to reach a cresendo people are shocked and stunned and so worried of what could loom over us and the Jail forever!! The muck that was built in the sixties still stands Hawkins House, Liffey House to mention other 6 storey blocks although everyone agrees they should never have being built. This is the year 2000 and the implementation of IAPs, there are no excuses this.

This development belongs out off the M50 not on the actual ancient lands where Brian Boru camped the evening before the battle of Clontarf in 1014 also the ancient place of St. John’s Well. This is reason enough why no speculative office blocks should ever be built here. This site cries out and deserves development in the form of heritage, tourism an international hotel etc.- not speculative office blocks.

I write on behalf of the lads in Donoughue’s who when I told them (with their mouths open) of what our IAP has planned for the Nestle site, said to a man “Office blocks, never, your messing, in front of Kilmainham Jail, the government would never allow it.” As is the norm (after a little thought on the matter) in this district they then put their heads back in their pints to console themselves and their genuine feelings of “why bother John, it’s a done deal as usual”

I also write on behalf of Rosie whom I conversed with in the snug of Mc Dowell’s when on hearing the proposal up at the Jail simply said “it’s a disgrace, office blocks, sure Dublin is full of them. I’ll tell you what’s badly needed around here, a chemist shop son, a chemist shop, tell them that!!!. Boy did she make me realise we’re all on the one road, in that this site must provide amenities and facilities for us and all our tourists alike. Maybe Rosie’s ideas of ideal facilities might differ from mine but are just as valid and desire a listener’s ear.

Many of us in Dublin are aware of the vision you manifested in your tenure as Limerick City Architect and its great equivalent historical site St. John’s Castle. We rest our trust in you that when people gather again in great crowds outside of Kilmainham in 2016 that you will have played your part in ensuring that an appropriate legacy is rightly located opposite Dublin’s and the nation’s most historic site.

Please Jim, this is your watch over us and Dublin’s Kilmainham Gaol. If you can spare us and the Jail from what is proposed to loom over us forever, please do.

Yours sincerely,

JOHN CALLERY & SON.

an be realised – opposite Kilmainham Gaol. All one has to do is to look at the photomontages as submitted by the developer.

Username:: Niamh Checkley
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Date:: 05 February 2001
Time:: 13:36

Comments

I was appalled to hear about the office block planned for Kilmainham. As a native of Dublin I feel this building would ruin such a historic part of Dublin.

Username:: Noreen Dennehy
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Date:: 05 February 2001
Time:: 14:55

Comments

I feel that the proposed office block is highly inappropriate to it's surroundings. I live in the area (Kilmainham, D 8) and feel that the historical and cultural atmosphere of the area would not be best preserved by the building of an office block. This is not in the area's best long term interests - posterity will not thank us for going ahead with this development.

Username:: Alice Da Silva
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Date:: 05 February 2001
Time:: 18:51

Comments

I am objecting to your proposed office development. These historic buildings are a direct link to our history and should not be adversely affected in any way. Alice in New York.

Username:: Captain Simon Reece
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Date:: 05 February 2001
Time:: 21:54

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Kilmainham jail is one of the most impressive historical buildings in europe. it captures hundreds of years of are history. So many people died in this place so people like us can look back and be proud of being irish and now people are going to be let overshadow this fantastic building that symbolis's irish freedom. People cop on

Captain Simon Reece United states airforce

Username:: Patrick R. E. Kelley
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Date:: 06 February 2001
Time:: 03:41

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I believe that to dwarf Kilmainham Gaol with modern office buildings would greatly affect the impact that the building has on visitors to Ireland's most important historical monument. The visual impact that its size conveys expresses the oppressive force that the crown held over Ireland. When I visited it in 1994 I was deeply moved by the power of the building to silence and depress I think had it been surrounded by larger buildings its impact would not have been as great. I am from Edmond, Oklahoma, USA and consider this building one of the most meaningful places in Ireland.

Username:: James Waugh,15 The Paddocks, South Circular Road, Kilmainham ,Dublin 8
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Date:: 07 February 2001
Time:: 16:27

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Dublin City Planners - May we add our concerns to the matter addressed by Liam O’Meara in today's Irish Times, the insane proposal (being considered by Dublin Corporation) i.e. the planning of massive speculative office blocks opposite Kilmainham Gaol in this the most ancient and historic district of Dublin City. How can this be considered by Dublin Corporation as part of their much lauded Integrated Area Plan (IAP) for Kilmainham/Inchicore that was launched with such a fanfare in the East Wing of Kilmainham Gaol on the 2nd November 1999 ??

This preposterous proposal could land, surround and loom over (on all sides) some of the greatest protected stone icons that stand in the city of Dublin today. Namely, Kilmainham Gaol (a national monument), The Royal Hospital, Kilmainham Courthouse, the Richmond Tower, the ancient walls of Bully’s Acre, the Great War Memorial Park and the residents of the Victorian dwellings of St. John’s Terrace and Inchicore Road.

This is Dublin’s "Bastille district",it must be developed and enhanced by an appropriate and well thought design as one would see in any other European city. This magnificent elevated site was chosen by Brian Boru as his campsite the evening before the Battle of Clontarf in 1014. It is also the ancient place of St. John’s Well. This the Western Gateway into Dublin City deserves the planning of a landmark building (of the utmost architectural excellence) to stand in the middle of its illustrious neighbours. This site must have full public access to allow our thousands of tourists / ourselves to ponder and reflect on all the great history that surrounds this site and to enjoy its most splendid and unique views.

Sile de Velera (Minister for heritage and culture) listen to the voices of the people in the churches, shops / pubs of Inchicore and Kilmainham and above all listen to the voices reverberating of the walls and cells of Kilmainham Gaol, please no speculative office blocks here in any shape or form !!

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Date:: 08 February 2001
Time:: 10:51

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Username:: Paul Salmon, 29 The Coppice, Palmerstown, Dublin 20.
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Date:: 08 February 2001
Time:: 14:04

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Dublin Corporation this proposal in front of you (and the Jail) fails the objectives and aims of your own Integrated Area Plan for Kilmainham. It also fails the criteria set out in your own commissioned Urban Design Plan of May 2000. This stated that on this site must arise a building of architectural excellence / a landmark building. The proposal before you totally fails your own criteria totally - you cannot pass this proposal before you and have posterity ask why??

Username:: BETRAYAL BY DUBLIN CORPORATION.
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Date:: 08 February 2001
Time:: 15:00

Comments

Dear Mr Callery

We act as Planning Consultants for the proposed development. I note from the Planning Files at Dublin Corporation and from the letters page of the Irish Voice your correspondence on this issue.

I am concerned that some of the statements you make are at odds with the facts of the scheme. For example, the Gaol is located south of the scheme. Therefore the proposal has shadow cast upon it by the Gaol, not the other way around. Similarly, your correspondence does not take into account the current and long-standing industrial use of the site as a Chocolate Factory.

We held two meetings with local residents in June at the Ashling Hotel to outline the scheme prior to lodgement to Dublin Corporation.

We have also met with senior officials of Duchas - the Heritage Service who are vested with the care of Kilmainham Gaol.

The scheme as submitted stems from detailed discussions with senior planners and architects at Dublin Corporation, and the developer is fully commited to the realisation of the planning gain elements.

We will be holding another public meeting shortly (early September)for local residents to which we will extend you an invitation. We would welcome the opportunity to discuss the scheme with you.

I would like to correct the record in terms of your correspondence with the Irish Voice so that any letters of representation stem from correct information.

I look forward to meeting with you at the public meeting.

With regards

Tom R. Phillips

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Date:: 08 February 2001
Time:: 23:30

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Date:: 10 February 2001
Time:: 14:03

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It is time people realized that the government is supposed to work for us "The people of Ireland" We hired them we can fire them,so hands off our heritage,leave Kilmainham alone and let the "fat cats" find some other way to get richer and not at our expense. Jim Wall

Username:: FRIENDS OF KILMAINHAM GAOL.
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Date:: 10 February 2001
Time:: 16:53

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Q95) COUNCILLOR JOHN GALLAGHER.

To ask the City Manager(John Fitzgerald)if he will establish an independent group of experts to examine the feasibility of a variation of the Development Plan for the Nestle site, Inchicore Road , Dublin 8, so that this site is re-zoned to take account of its historic importance and vital role in the future of Inchicore.

CITY MANAGER'S REPLY.

THE SITE IS ZONED Z6 " to provide for the protection of enterprise and facilitate employment creation" The site has a longstanding use for industrial purposes.

According to the Integrated Area Plan " The underlying strategy of the IAP is to " bring about economic regeneration of Kilmainham-Inchicore, whilst protecting and enhancing both the built environment and greenspace, all to be based on an appreciation of the historic importance of the area."

The change of use zoning on this site and the loss of employment potential would not be desirable and could not be recommended.

There is a good mix of use zones in the area. There is a clear synergy between the provision of significant employment uses on the Nestle site and the existing residential developments nearby.

THE CURRENT APPLICATION (2467/00) AS REVISED AT THE REQUEST OF THE PLANNING DEPT. PROVIDES FOR A MIX OF USES ON SITE INCLUDING A RESTAURANT,CRECHE, INFORMATION AND LEISURE USES.

At a meeting with the local Councillors it seems that they are more concerned with design issues and not so much as the Z6 zoning per se. In practice in dealing with the current application it is been treated as if it were a de facto CONSERVATION AREA.

**********************************************

So there you have it from the horse's mouth or rather the developers mouths. Who does Fitzgerald represent the people of Dublin or the developers. Obviously from his script as written above his agenda overlaps the developers agenda to a tee. His feeble efforts to justify the destruction of this site is pathetic and its morally and profesionally wrong of him to present the developers argument. In any other City Authority there would be immediate calls for his dismissal and resignation. Note not once did he refer to the existance of Kilmainham Gaol. So the site in front of the Gaol was an industrial site 50 years ago and must remain so for the next 1000 years, what a sorry justification this is for to build high rise speculative office blocks in front of Kilmainham Gaol. The top official in Dublin Corporation has spoken ( 5th February 2001)-my God what hands we and the Old Gaol are in. Dublin Corporation are letting us know (and Treasury Holdings) well in advance of their decision. The City Manager's reply to John Gallagher's question is a disgrace. Fitzgerald ( along with both the de Veleras) is quite happy to oversee the destruction of the obvious potential of this site i.e. tourism and cultural facilities.

Username:: Petra Schurenhofer
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Date:: 10 February 2001
Time:: 17:20

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Dear Sir/Madam,

Kilmainham Jail is an important historical site. Please don't ruin it. There are some things in life which are more important than short-term profit.

Petra Schurenhofer (Dublin)

Username:: Richard Davies
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Date:: 11 February 2001
Time:: 11:59

Comments

The proposed development opposite Kilmainham Gaol appears to be another nail in the Integrated Area Plan. Million Pound plans to develop Inchicore Village (Grattan Cresent)into a Plaza and pedestrian friendly area will be severly undermined by the increase in traffic from the above development. R. Davies (Hon. Sec. Tyrconnell Residents Association)

Username:: Ed Brophy
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Date:: 12 February 2001
Time:: 00:39

Comments

As a local resident I am appalled that such an inappropriate development would even be considered for this historic area.

Username:: Leigh Dolan
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Date:: 12 February 2001
Time:: 10:38

Comments

Dublin Feb 01

After returning to the Gaol for the second time in three years recently, I was delighted to see the pending removal of the Rowentree factory opposite the Gaol. However, on passing and viewing the planning application outside, I was amazed to see what is to replace it. The sheer bulk and scale of the proposal is of concern in this particularily historicaly sensitive area. Have these developers no concern over what they are doing? Can the Corpo not put their footdown and avoid replicating disasters such as Liberty hall and Liffey house all over again? What about the residents nearby?

Shame on you dublin Corp and developers.

Username:: DAIL DEBATE ON SITE OPPOSITE KILMAINHAM GAOL.
UserEmail:: Time for the Minister for Heritage and the Arts to meet the people ??
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Date:: 12 February 2001
Time:: 12:50

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^ Sale of Dublin Site. ^

Mr. G. Mitchell: I would like to give a minute of my time to Deputies Upton and McGennis, my colleagues in the constituency. The old Rowntree Mackintosh site on Inchicore Road, Kilmainham is directly opposite Kilmainham Gaol, which will be well known to the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, and the Minister of State at the Department, Deputy Ó Cuív, because their grandfather, Eamon de Valera, spent some time in that gaol at the time of the rising which gave rise to the foundation of this State. Inchicore and Kilmainham is a very historic area. W.T. Cosgrave was born in Kilmainham and was incarcerated within the vicinity of Inchicore. My own father is from Emmet Road, Inchicore and my mother is from Mount Brown, Kilmainham, both equidistant from this site and from Kilmainham Gaol. Both my parents could have literally thrown a stone into the gaol yard. In their memory, the memory of all the people from Inchicore and Kilmainham who consider that site to be precious, the memory of the Minister of State's own grandfather, the memory of W.T. Cosgrave and the memory of the people who gave their lives to found this State and who served in this State, I ask the Minister, who told us that Dúchas already has 700 sites and it does not need one more, to now take on this historic site, which dates back to a campsite for Brian Boru; there is evidence to show that is the case. What is proposed for this site is a commercial development which will be little more than a major office block with a few dressing up facilities attached. It will do terrible damage to the vicinity. It would bring an enormous amount of traffic and overlook houses in the vicinity.

(Mr. G. Mitchell contg) This site, which can be seen from the Phoenix Park and is adjacent to the Royal Hospital Kilmainham, the only 16th century building in Dublin, if not in the country, still in use, is an important historic site. I plead with the Minister to enter into negotiations with Dublin Corporation to acquire this site and put it to use for cultural and heritage purposes, perhaps with the addition of a suitable hotel for tourists who are attracted into the area. I ask the Minister to make it a total of 701 sites and to meet a deputation of local people and Deputies to discuss this possibility.

Dr. Upton: I thank Deputy Mitchell for sharing his time with me. The proposed development of this historic site will add nothing to the area. Rather it will seriously damage the great historic and cultural value of the environment around Kilmainham. The application admits it has nothing to offer the local community. Many of the representations made refer to the great historic value of Kilmainham Gaol. This needs to be to the forefront in the consideration of any planning application. As it stands, the proposed development will totally dwarf the gaol. Something like 200,000 visitors visit this historic area every year. Some parts of the site could be used to develop and exploit the tourism potential of Kilmainham. The Kilmainham and Inchicore areas have great potential but in the past they have not been developed to the benefit of local people. I ask the Minister to give careful consideration to the request of local people who, together with those who have an interest in local and national culture and history, are interested in the retention of the site for development as a cultural area.

Ms M. McGennis: I thank Deputy Mitchell giving me an opportunity to make a plea not only on behalf of the residents of the area but on historic grounds. The Minister may say this is a matter for Dublin Corporation. However, even if it decides to refuse the application, which has been described by my constituency colleagues as an abomination, the local community and Dublin as a whole will have to fight a running battle in relation to this site which was once occupied by the old Rowntree factory and has been taken over by Nestlé. Due to its zoning and usage it is ripe for the wrong type of development. It appears from the soundings made to Dublin Corporation there is a strong possibility that if this application is refused a future application will proceed. We do not want to have to fight a running battle in relation to the future of the site. As Deputy Mitchell said, a response to the city council indicated that the Minister has sufficient sites in her ownership and she does not want to take on another one. If she does not take on this site this area will be destroyed. I plead with the Minister to look sympathetically at our request and to urgently meet a deputation to discuss the future of the site.

Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Éamon Ó Cuív): I am delighted to have the opportunity to put on the record the position in relation to Kilmainham Gaol. Kilmainham Gaol is one of the most important of the heritage sites managed by the Department. It was first opened in 1796 and served as a gaol until 1924. During its period of operation Kilmainham Gaol could be said to have functioned like a political seismograph, recording most of the significant tremors in the often turbulent relations between this country and our neighbours. With the exception of perhaps Daniel O'Connell and Michael Collins, it is possible to draw up a comprehensive list of nationalist leaders, including Éamon de Valera---

Mr. G. Mitchell: And Parnell.

Éamon Ó Cuív: I will not list all the great people such as Robert Emmet, Ann Devlin and others who were incarcerated in the prison. The 1916 leaders were also executed in the prison. It is possible to draw up a comprehensive list of nationalist leaders who were prisoners in Kilmainham during the years it operated as a gaol. The record will show that Éamon de Valera was the last prisoner to be released from Kilmainham Gaol. It can be said, therefore, that while the gaol may be empty of prisoners it is filled with history. Kilmainham Gaol is one of the most important of the heritage sites managed by the Department. By way of example, the number of visitors to the gaol in 2000 was in excess of 103,000. This does not take account of the some 17,000 who visited the site under the free educational visits scheme operated by the Department at heritage sites. Deputies on all sides of the House will agree that the figures I have quoted are significant and reflect the status which the site enjoys not only among our population but also among overseas visitors. I have long recognised the important role the gaol has played both in terms of the heritage of Dublin and as an integral part of the city's tourism industry. It was for this reason the Minister, when making decisions on the allocation of funding available to the heritage area under the national development plan, approved substantial funding for three separate but equally important projects at the gaol - the re-roofing of the east wing, the relocation of the restaurant and the provision of much needed extra storage space. The exact sequence of these projects has yet to be determined but I am confident work on the site will commence during 2002.

(Interruptions).

Éamon Ó Cuív: Many of the issues raised are a matter for Dublin Corporation - they are planning rather than heritage issues.

Mr. G. Mitchell: I want the Department to buy the site.

Éamon Ó Cuív: Dublin Corporation is considering a planning application for the development of the old Rowntree-Mackintosh site across from the gaol. My Department is aware of the scheme proposed and in this context officials from the Department have been in contact with the developer to ensure that the heritage of Kilmainham Gaol and access to it are safeguarded.

Mr. G. Mitchell: Will the Minister meet a deputation?

Éamon Ó Cuív: The main focus of these contacts has been on parking for visitors to the gaol, with my officials seeking to reach agreement with the developer regarding possible parking on the Rowntree-Mackintosh site once any development is complete. My Department is awaiting a response from the developer on this matter.

Mr. G. Mitchell: Will the Minister meet a deputation?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please, Deputy.

Éamon Ó Cuív: My Department has advised Dublin Corporation that the Rowntree-Mackintosh site is considered to have archaeological potential. As is normally the case in such instances, my Department has recommended to Dublin Corporation that if planning permission for the development is granted specific conditions relating to test excavations and archaeological monitoring should be attached. My officials have asked for these conditions to be attached specifically in the interest of protecting possible archaeological heritage which may be present on the site. The Minister wants to make it clear, as she has done on a number of occasions when the matter was raised in the House by way of parliamentary question, that as the site is ear-marked for a major commercial development the question of its acquisition by the Department does not arise. I will convey the Deputy's request to the Minister who no doubt will be in contact with him directly in relation to the request for a meeting.

Mr. G. Mitchell: Thank you.

Username:: Leo Birthistle , St. John's Gardens, Kilmainham, Dublin 8.
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Date:: 12 February 2001
Time:: 12:57

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JAMES P. BOURKE B.E. Civil Engineer.

SON NA MARA, COLIEMORE ROAD, DALKEY, CO. DUBLIN. IRELAND. TELEPHONE 2859954.

Proposed Development @ Kilmainham. Nestle Factory Site.

On Thursday 18th January 2001, I visited the above site, where I carried out a hydro-geolgical survey. Before doing so, I inspected 4 maps of the area. From an inspection of these maps it would appear that five locations have been given for wells in this area.

The maps examined were as follows:-

a) 1811, by Thomas Campbell. b) 1832 / 43, Ordnance Survey. c) 1886 / 87, Valuation Office.

The maps for 1811 and for 1832 both appear to show a St. John’s Well at the point marked a on attached map. The 1832 map also shows a “well” at the point B. the maps for 1886 and 1902 show St. John’s Well at the point C. In 1838 according to Kenny (1995..71) the well was “exactly at the corner of Bully’s Acre”, (point D on attached map.)

It Appears the railway cutting which was made in the 1840s, cut the supply of water to the well, (now located at the corner of Bully’s Acre). A new outlet for the spring that fed the well was found on the western side of the Circular Road. The maps for 1886 and 1902 show “St. John’s Well” outside of and to the south of the newly of the newly completed terrace “St. John’s Gardens”. Yet it would appear that when the houses were built in 1896- 98, “they infringed upon the space around the well”. This would indicate that marking the location at ( C ) as shown on maps 1896 and 1902 would have been incorrect.

This point has been confirmed on the site, where it was found that no underground stream exists here ( C ) which would be necessary to supply a spring well. The reference that the houses “infringed around the well” almost certainly places the site of the well in the property of house No. 695 St. John’s Gardens.

On attached maps I have shown, dotted blue, the layout of an under ground stream. From The Model Schools Inchicore, it follows the gravel ridge just south of the railway embankment to pass through the proposed development site. The stream emerges from the site to under house No. 695 St. John’s Gardens ( E on the map ). It then passes under South Circular Road, at D where it divides into two streams. The main portion of the stream travels towards the Royal Hospital, the other moves towards the point A. Here it is met by a stream coming from a north-westerly direction before joining the Liffey – bed a little further on.

The water in this underground stream can be observed at two locations:- ( X ) In the recently constructed well in the grounds of the Buddhist Community. ( Y ) In the ground of the Royal Hospital, where it surfaces in the low-lying ground as the water table rises. From the above information a picture emerges in relation to the visissitudes of St. John’s Well and its various alleged locations.

(1) St. John’s Priory was founded in 1174. It has been established a well existed at that time ( Bersu, 1948 ). This would presumably have been the first St. John’s Well.

(2) With the dissolution of St. John’s Priory in 1556, the building fell into decay. Presumably the well and it’s surrounds suffered a similar fate.

(3) The next nearest well would have been the one shown ( A ). It most likely took on the name St. John’s Well around this time.

(4) With the railway excavation of the 1840s, the supply to ( A ) was cut off and the stream blocked.

(5) The water in the stream would then have backed – up under pressure to emerge at ( D ), on the corner of Bully’s Acre.

(6) The subsequent extensive road widening here would have blocked this well. The source would again have backed – up to emerge in what is now the back garden of No. 695 St. John’s Gardens. This would appear to have been the final location for the well.

Consequences of Site Excavation.

The lowering of the water table here by approx. 9 metres will have medium and long-term effects. The subsoil around the excavated area will Contract as it dries out. This will tend to cause subsidence of foundations, with consequent cracking of walls. The area to be excavated is given at approx. 16,000 sq. metres. This means the quantity of material to be removed will be approx. 150,000 sq. metres. Over 300,000 Tonnes would be involved, or something of the order of 15,000 truck loads. The impact of such heavy traffic on the roads and foundations around the area would be incalculable.

Just outside the site on its western end is a well surmounted by a substantial structure. This has been built for the Buddhist Community, obviously for religious purposes. This well will totally be without water if excavation takes place as proposed.

The houses north and south of No. 695, St. John’s Gardens will be greatly affected by shrinking subsoil beneath their foundations. On my visit to this area ( 18th January 2001 ) I surveyed No. 695 St. John’s Gardens for structural defects. Externally there were none. Internally, a crack was observed at ceiling level in the north-eastern corner of a downstairs front room. It was approx. 1mm wide and ran for approx. 0.5 metres.

It would appear from records ( Natural History of Co. Dublin, 1772 ) that a lead mine was in use in 1776, at Kilmainham. It was located at the Commons , where it is reasonable to assume that lead seams may be located beneath the Nestle site. A bore-hole survey is imperative to decide this issue. If lead is found the site should not be developed, because of the toxicity of lead, especially when it is brought into contact with water.

In view of all these considerations it would be deleterious to the residents of this locality if the development of the Nestle Factory site were to be sanctioned.

JAMES P. BOURKE B.E. ( Civil Engineer ).

Username:: Paul Dunne
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Date:: 13 February 2001
Time:: 09:55

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As a resident of Inchicore Road, I am quite frankly amazed that the public need to go to these lengths to prevent this development. Kilmainham Gaol and The Royal Hospital are two of Dublin's most famous and historical attractions and to think that this site may be developed to the detriment of these sites is outrageous. We do not want an office development on a historical site. Why the hell did we build office parks in the first place. This development has no place in Kilmainham and should be housed in Esat Point or one of the other many alternative office parks. Please wake up and scrap these plans before it is too late. Yours, Paul Dunne

Username:: Paul Dunne
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Date:: 13 February 2001
Time:: 09:57

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As a resident of Inchicore Road, I am quite frankly amazed that the public need to go to these lengths to prevent this development. Kilmainham Gaol and The Royal Hospital are two of Dublin's most famous and historical attractions and to think that this site may be developed to the detriment of these sites is outrageous. We do not want an office development on a historical site. Why the hell did we build office parks in the first place? This development has no place in Kilmainham and should be housed in East Point or one of the other many alternative office parks. Please wake up and scrap these plans before it is too late. Yours, Paul Dunne

Username:: Johnny Fortycoats
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Date:: 13 February 2001
Time:: 13:15

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A largre crowd of yuppies outside of kilmainham had their mobiles switched off as the sat on the ground, Now inside that dim prison live the natives of Inchicore, their house prices pushed up by the new yuppie scum. For what once was a village is now raped and pillaged as the old stock departs like the last 21. *(bus route no longer in use)

God's curse on you Tiger, you cruel hearted monster, your breed they would shame all the demons in Town. The locals are fuming but the yuppies are booming, as they strangle oul Inchicore off the face of the earth.

Username:: J.Wall
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Date:: 13 February 2001
Time:: 16:48

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J.Wall The last thing Kilmainham needs is an building of of that scale, out of context with its surroundings. Have we not learned from our mistakes in the design and location of the eyesore central bank on Dame St, and the pill boxes the Corpo itself resides in. The architects and developers are not infallible, as Dublins legacy of eyesores proves. These plans demand a rethink.

Username:: Inchicore Road, Residences Association, Kilmainham Dublin 8.
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Date:: 14 February 2001
Time:: 11:58

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Inchicore Road Residences Association Inchicore Road, Kilmainham, Dublin 8.

13.02.01.

The Inchicore Road Residences Association wish to lodge an objection to Dublin Corporation, against the revised plans submitted by Charmside Developments for their proposed development across from Kilmainham Gaol. (2467/00).

The reasons for the objection are outlined below. The most important point is in relation to the zoning of the site. Other points raised are in relation to the proposed structure.

Zoning: The zoning of this site as industrial in an area dominated by heritage buildings and protected structures is completely inappropriate. The site should be used as a heritage site with facilities for the public and tourists.

New Public Space: The existing Nestle building is set back from the building line of the houses on the north side of Inchicore Road. This opens out the street at the entrance to Inchicore Road and gives a feeling of space in front of the Gaol. One can clearly visualise how this could be transformed into a public space if the current set back line of the Nestles office block is maintained.

In contrast to this the curved wall of the proposed structure projects aggressively out beyond the existing building line of the houses on the north side of the Inchicore Road. In doing this it dominates all other buildings in the area. The building is to be built over the sunny side of the street and the space in front of it will be in shadow for most of the year and therefore will not be used as a public space. There is no public seating indicated in the proposed new space. To summarise this ‘public space’ as proposed in front of the Gaol is no more than a glorified Zebra crossing – it’s a joke.

Character of Inchicore Road: Inchicore Road is Kilmainham’s (Unden den Liden) it’s a most unique Tree Lined Avenue. Very mature trees ( 100 years +) line it on either side. The developers proposes to remove at least one of these trees opposite the Gaol. It’s also very clear from the plan that other existing mature trees will be in grave danger of being lost during construction considering their proximity to the proposed structure.

The charming character of Inchicore Road is defined by this tree lined Avenue and under no circumstances should these trees be removed.

Scale: The scale of the building is overpowering and dominates and dwarfs all surrounding structures. It clearly does not relate to the surrounding structures.

Form and Mass: The form of the building is MONOLITHIC and the proposed density on the site bears no relationship to the surrounding structures. In fact the revised scheme increases the size of the development by 3,351sq. metres thus increasing its density.

Materials: The proposed use of Tecrete is totally alien to the context.

Natural Ventilation: The developer proposes using natural ventilation. This will be impossible on two accounts. Firstly the depth of the building from window to atrium is up to 28 metres. This is too wide resulting in a large volumetric space which cannot be ventilated naturally. Secondly with a large density of lights / to service this computers and VDUs in the building mechanical cooling / air-conditioning plant will be required to counteract the heat being produced. The revised scheme shows no plant on the roof. In fact a very large plant area on the roof will be required to service this building thus raising the building by another storey. The developers obviously intend to apply for this at a later date.

Public Transport: The proposed transport node of the LUAS on Davitt Road (in Drimnagh) that is to service this building is located at too great a distance to fulfil this role. The surrounding roads are already pushed at peak hours to cope with this proposed influx of traffic. The surrounding residential area will be used as an overflow parking area for the new development.

Conclusion: This development offers nothing to the community into which it is proposed to land other than to seriously damage the integrity and existing historical ambience of Inchicore Road and in particular Kilmainham Gaol.

Username:: James Aylward, 8 Seskin View Park, Dublin 24
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Date:: 15 February 2001
Time:: 10:59

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More great news from Dublin Corporation's Integrated Area Plan for Inchicore.

CORPORATION NOW PROPOSE TO ENHANCE THE GREENSPACE AND PROTECT OUR HERITAGE BY BUILDING "THE INCHICORE PRISION" AT JAMESTOWN ROAD INCHICORE.

WE THOUGHT OFFICE BLOCKS AT KILMAINHAM GAOL WAS THE SECRET OF THE IAP - WHAT A JOKE IS THE CORPORATIONS IAP FOR THIS DISTRICT.

Mary Taylor( IAP Manager!! ) you have nothing to manage except the Corporation's / developers plans and agenda for our place.

Go over to Smithfield and see an IAP working for its community and enhancing the district.

Username:: Jacques Le Goff
UserEmail:: techtran@indigo.ie
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Date:: 16 February 2001
Time:: 09:36

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I'm a French person living in Kilmainham, directly under the south side of Kilmainham Gaol. How on Earth can public representatives support such a monstruosity? The local councillors voting in favour of that project should be ashamed of themselves. There is strictly no need for a block of offices as such in front of one of your best preserved historical monument. Do we really want that to be the legacy of the 21st. century? Wake up. Scrap that monster.

Username:: Ivan Lennon
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Date:: 19 February 2001
Time:: 01:53

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As a people we have been quite diligent since the 1920s in destroying national treasures.Dublin should built upon what it has without destroying any further those features tying us to our past

Username:: Alan Clinton in The Netherlands
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 09:30

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Sir, I wish to register my opposition to the proposed development of the Gaol area of Kilmainham. This part of mine and Ireland's heritage should be protected against such intrusion.

Username:: Cathy Burns Brian O Connr
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 09:32

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We are disgusted but not all that suprised that Dublin Corporation have granted planning permission for yet more office blocks. It is a disgrace that a development like this could be allowed to go ahead. The number of tourists and Irish people who have visited the jail and been deeply moved by it is staggering. How then could the whole atmosphere and feeling of the place be placed in jepordy? In any other city in the world, this would be a respected building given its historical significance and the planning permission guidelines would be stringent. But it seems in this country the developers call the shots - The developers have already got their hands on several architecturaly and historicaly significant buildings in Dublin and elsewhere and have had so called "protected structure status" lifted. Will we have to look back in years to come and bemoan the destruction of our history in the name of development?

Cathy & Brian O'Connor

Username:: Cathy Burns Brian O Connr
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 09:32

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Cathy & Brian O'Connor

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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 09:47

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To whom it may concern As an ex Dub I felt very sad to read a news item in todays (20/02/01) issue of the Irish Times which informs us of the Dublin Corporations' decision to allow the proposed developement of a block of offices opposite Kilmainham Gaol and in the immediate vicinity of the Royal Hospital and the National Irish Memorial. Have they not learned from the lessons of the past, in particular the 1960s and 70s when the developers and the money-men tore the heart out of the historic centre of Dublin. In those dark days I was convinced that theDublin Corporation was made up of people from outside the city who didn't care what happened to the city and those who wanted to pull down anything that might remind us of the British part of the cities history. Same old story I suppose, "to hell with asthetics lads just stick a lump of concrete and glass there". How very very sad. There is still time to change your minds in the "Corpo". Remember too that the day of the brown envelope is gone. Stop this development before it is too late. The city is for your decendants as well as yourselves. Don't leave them a legacy of concrete blocks and carparks

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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 09:52

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Username:: Ciara Talbot
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 10:28

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Dear Sir / madam,

I live within 200m of the site of the proposed development plan by Charmside. I wish to register my objection to the plans. I am not against the future development of the area but I strongly object to the use, design and visual impact of the proposed building. The plans demonstrate a tremendous lack of foresight and imagination on behalf of the developers.

The Planning Department has an ailing reputation in Dublin. This would slide further into decline if this plan was to be approved. This area has a wonderful loop of historical attractions and Charmside wish to plug it with a modern building which conflicts with local community and tourist interests.

The traffic problem in Kilmainham is in decline. My car is blocked into my driveway at least once a week due to a car parked accross the entrance. This demonstrates the parking difficulties at present.I can't imagine how bad it would be if this development was to go ahead.

As a state funded body, please put the interests of the community you serve above the developers interests of thoughtless 'prog$$$$$$$ress'.

Ciara Talbot 59 Old Kilmainham

Username:: Donal Burke
UserEmail:: dburke.ca4@compapp.dcu.ie
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 12:26

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To whom it concerns, I was horrified to read in this morning's Irish Times that Dublin Corporation have granted planning permission for the construction of an office block at the Rowntree Macintosh site on Old Inchicore Road. I have been a resident of Inchicore for the past 18 years and have experienced both the positive and negative things associtated with Inchicore/Kilmainham. Kilmainham is an extremely historic part of not only Inchicore but also Dublin. I feel that you should stronly consider the impact of the construction of a six-storey in such a delicate environment.

Look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely, Donal Burke

Username:: Mark McDonald
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 12:38

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This is yet another disgraceful let down on the part of a publicly trusted body. Your role is to protect the natural resources we have rather than bow to the wealthy developers. Surely there could be a more tastefule way of using a site of this type. How many times is the hostory of this city has a site come avialable between two of the most beautiful and unexploited pieces of architecture in Dublin? please don't let this chance pass!

Inchicore Road, Kilaminham Dublin 8

Username:: Belinda O'Dea
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 17:03

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I am writing from Kilmainham and am appalled at the proposal for a six storey office block - six stories !!! I am not against progress & the Rowntree building is pretty ugly, so knocking it is a good thing. But the area is already quite elevated & six stories will completely ruin it. It'll over shadow not only the Gaol & courthouse but the beautiful war memorial gardens will have to live in its imposing presence which would completely spoil it (the gardens) and God knows we don't have too many green areas left. Not to mention the effect on the view from the Royal Hospital. Just when the restoration of the old buildings is looking so good, its seems ridiculous that in a city of low buildings this is where the decision is made to build a monstrosity. Why the burning desire to line some fat cat property developers pockets ? Maybe you should consider something as awful to put beside the GPO while you are at it. Please stop this craziness.

Username:: Stuart Turnbull
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 20:18

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Please, please leave this beautiful, historical part of Dublin alone. Look at the balls-up you all made of the Handel Arch! Try and think of your Heritage and History for once instead of trying to line your own pockets. The Leaders of 1916 would be horrified at the thought.

Username:: Stuart Turnbull, Dublin Ireland
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 20:25

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Username:: Ms. Lorraine Christina Chambers
UserEmail:: emeraldlorraine@aol.com, lorrainechambers@ireland.com
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 20:55

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My parents are Dubliners and we reside for the past 40 years in Southern California. I visited the old jail in 1998 with my Dublin cousin one afternoon. I was impressed by the restoration and historical presentation/exhibits in the jail. The proposed additional complexes on the site would diminish the significance of the jail. More is less, less is more. Leave the jail alone. Look at it like hallow holy grounds like a cementary. Let the dead rest and history be at peace with leaving the environment of the jail area alone. Don't let Ireland become like the overcrowded California that I live in. Thank you.

Username:: Ms. Lorraine Christina Chambers
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 20:55

Comments

Username:: MIRIAM MURPHY
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Date:: 20 February 2001
Time:: 21:23

Comments

MIRIAM MURPHY KILMAINHAM DUBLIN 8.

As a local and resident of Kilmainham/Inchicore. I am deeply disturbed by Dublin Corporations proposals in favour of a six storey building opposite Kilmainham Gaol the plans are totally unsuitable for the area, and not in the interest of the locals or otherwise. Its time for the people of Dublin to Stand up to unscrupulous property developers whose interests are purely for financial gain. COME ON CORPO GET WITH THE PROGRAMME!!!!!!!! BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

Username:: Gerald G Pegman
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Date:: 21 February 2001
Time:: 15:48

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I am from Co. Wicklow,Ireland and believe that any construction to this extent right beside any of our most tresured heritage sites is just an outrage and must not even be entertained.

Username:: Ciaran murray
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Date:: 22 February 2001
Time:: 07:51

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I support the campaign to halt the proposed office block in it,s current form.I believe it is a mistake and should not go ahead.I have visited the Gaol on a few occasions and was very impressed by what I saw.It is a very Important and interesting place and should reflect that in any decision that is reached.

Username:: Country Yuppie
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Date:: 22 February 2001
Time:: 14:59

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I thought those born and reared in Inchicore lived in St Michaels House - so whats the problem in affordability there?

Those born in The Liberties, Coombe, Kilmainham, Inchicore and Marrowbone Lane, Maryland Rialto and Dolphin Barn couldn't get out quick enough hence you have hinterlands of Lucan Swords Tallaght . All this talk of protecting our cultural heritage is crap, how many of these objectors and their posse actually visit Kilmainham and the Museum on a regular basis. This area badly needs investment - what were all of you going to do were have a wip-around or Bingo nights, open up another chipper - get real.

For all the Ex - Pats tossing in their pennies worth, the yuppies of Ireland have enough worries with Potholes, decrepit transport, high taxes and inner city knackers without you fretting about our Cultural Heritage.

This site was on the market - for sale to the Highest bidder, why didn't ye lobby the Corpo then or the Lottery, when we didn't have a pot to piss in and paid 65% PAYE this wouldn't be an issue, and when times were bad all those do-good ex-pats were making their fortunes and didn't give a toss about the Cultural and Historical responsibilities of the People of Dublin. Feck Off.

Charmside Abu!

Is Mise.

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Date:: 22 February 2001
Time:: 16:32

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I lived in Rialto for several years. IMMA was an amenity that I visited many times. I also visited the gaol, though less frequently, for obvious reasons. I agree entirely with the view I have heard expressed that visitors have no reason to spend any further time - or, importantly, money, in the area, once they have visited these two important sites. Having visited them, our next step was always simply to go home. Yet it is a very attractive area, potentially more so. I agree entirely that the former Rowntree-Macintosh site should be developed as a visitor recreational amenity of some kind - perhaps an 'urban plaza' as suggested. It could become a marvellous spot to spend some time and enjoy the view of the Park and the Memorial Gardens. Building offices is a wasted opportunity - and will, in fact, diminish the area.

Username:: Stephanie Grey
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Date:: 22 February 2001
Time:: 16:42

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I live in Dublin 8, and I wholeheatedly agree with the objections being raised against this proposed development. Kilmainham Gaol is a major part of our history and I feel the area should be developed to reflect this.

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Date:: 22 February 2001
Time:: 20:07

Comments

Darrell Flynn

Username:: Patrick C. Murphy
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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 04:23

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Please don't take the valuable space which can be developed to help the 160,000 tourist that come every year in which I will be 1 of them this Sept. I'm sure there are other areas you can put your buildings in that would ensure your company's profits and help the history of your great country. Im from the United States where alot of developers don't care about the history of an area just thier pocketbooks. Pllllease don't follow in thier footsteps. Thank you Patrick C. Murphy from Los Angeles, Ca. USA.

Username:: Noeleen O'Grady
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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 08:54

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This proposal is absolutely disgraceful.....such an historic site and it is going to be overlooked by an office site.

Not to mention the increased traffic and parking problems that a 6 storey office block is going to bring.

N. O'Grady, Glasnevin Dublin 11

Username:: Conor O'Dea
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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 14:18

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Conor O'Dea, 4 St. Maignenns tce, Old Kilmainham road, D8.

Sile De Valera & Charmside must be taking their cue from the old name for the Rowntrees site - Gallows hill. Though insisting that this 'development ' is not a sick joke, they are going to press ahead and hang the consequences. They have cunningly found the most elevated and prominent site in the area to build the largest & tallest building in the area. Underlining their sensitivity and care is the fact that the proposed building will intrude on, and devalue not one, not two but THREE important historical sites.

Aside from the patently obvious aesthetic and cultural objections, there is the danger that this will turn out to be Woodquay II. The site, apart from possibly being the location of the priory of the Knights Hospitaller, is likely to have significant Viking remains. In Bully's Acre, the ancient graveyard across the road from the proposed 'development', there is a Viking era granite shaft under which a Viking sword and gold coins have been found, and tradition has it that Brian Boru's son and grandson are buried there. Be that as it may, the whole area contained Viking settlements and burial sites - five separate Viking graves were also uncovered on the Inchicore side of the War memorial gardens when they were being excavated in the 1930's.

Colm Kenny, in his book 'Kilmainham: The history of a settlement older than Dublin' regards it as fortunate that much of Kilmainham has not been built on - in particular the Royal Hospital garden, the Memorial Gardens and the eastern side of the Rowntree property. The last paragraph of his book is:

"The earth of Kilmainham may yet yield some important finds, relating not only to the Viking age but also our Gaelic and Anglo-Norman past. Any development plan for the area ought to refer not only to the legacy of these of these earlier eras but also to the preservation and utilisation of relics of the more recent industrial and urban past. In this respect the recent construction of a museum at Kilmainham Gaol is a milestone"

It is worth bearing in mind that the renovation of the Gaol was mostly undertaken by local people, volunteers and ex-inmates, with little government help. It is also worth remembering that many of the older buildings in Kilmainham (mills, pubs, malt houses etc.) have been 'developed' i.e. flattened completely and turned into apartment blocks. Parking is already a nightmare, congestion constant and the buses are always overflowing. The notion that people will cycle to & from this new office development is laughable. I cycle, it's semi-suicidal and there isn't a cycle lane anywhere in Kilmainham or Inchicore.

With recent surge in the numbers of people living in Kilmainham and the number of tourists, the area desperately needs a focal point. The Rowntree site is perfect. So develop it properly. A full scale archaeological survey, followed by a suitable development catering to the needs of the people living and visiting the area, NOT yet another act of wanton vandalism by the powers that be.

Sile De Valera, our Minister for the Arts (let's befoul the Museum of Modern Art), Gaeltacht (doesn't speak Irish), Heritage (let's despoil our Heritage in the name of progress) and the islands (one visit to an island during her tenure) seems to be wreaking some horrible generational revenge on Kilmainham Gaol, the last inmate of which was her grandfather - Eamonn De Valera. Maybe she's just spreading herself too thin over all of those departments.

One would hope that Dublin Corporation Planning Dept. would learn from the fiasco of the 'development' of their home at Civic Offices in Woodquay rather than encouraging a repeat offence.

Username:: Donal Moriarty
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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 14:38

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Why is that it is not politically permissable anymore to have respect for sites of crucial historical importance - like Kilmainham Gaol. I'm not sure where this political courage has gone.

Maybe its with O'Leary in the grave.

Username:: Christopher Coughlan @ Family
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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 19:48

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|I'm from Foxrock in Dublin and I strongly object to the proposed development opposite Kilmainham Jail because it is on too grand a scale and totally out of harmony with the historical environment of such a nationally sacred place.

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Date:: 23 February 2001
Time:: 22:19

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Kevin Dillon Architect.... another lost oportunity. It's especially sad when the quality of the surrounding urban fabric is so unique. Nothing short of a comprehensive architectural framework plan is needed for the entire area....otherwise its destinctive charictar will be lost like in old Kilmainham

Username:: Chris
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Date:: 26 February 2001
Time:: 08:30

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What are you people thinking of? A little bit of thought and a consistant development plan would go a long way. The mish-mash of planning over the last thirty years demands that improvements are made - but only as part of an effort to get it right throughout the city. How can this development be viewed as right in any sense?

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Date:: 26 February 2001
Time:: 09:27

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I think that the plans are outrageous. This "building" should never have been given premission as the site is of outstanding historic value & beauity.

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Date:: 26 February 2001
Time:: 09:28

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I think that the plans are outrageous. This "building" should never have been given premission as the site is of outstanding historic value & beauity. -Paddy Byrne, Wexford.

Username:: Ben Brady, Drumullagh,Milltown, Belturbet.
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Date:: 26 February 2001
Time:: 16:35

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Well said the Boys of Wexford - now what about the Cavan men !!

Username:: Brian Gavin
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Date:: 27 February 2001
Time:: 22:16

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Dublin Corporation has often been ridiculed in song for the less than clever decisions made by the city fathers.

Will this be another occasion when the song writers and comedians will be given furtyhe scope to pillory the "intelligentsia" of local government ?

As international awareness of and interest in Ireland's history grows do not commit a crime against the "old woman". In "Juno" O'Casey wrote "no man can do enough for Ireland". Do enough now, by not allowing this development.

Username:: Brian Gavin
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Date:: 27 February 2001
Time:: 22:36

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Ever thought of concreting over Phoenix Park and turning it into a car park ?

What about converting the GPO into a Macdonalds?

Could the Abbey Theatre be converted for Bingo ?

If these were planning proposals, you would laugh at them and send for the men in white coats for the applicants. Perhaps you should do the same for those in Dublin Corporation who think that the construction of an office block opposite what must be regarded as a national treasure (Kilmainhan Jail) is a proposal that might be palatable.

Desecration seems a more appropriate word.